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The Boy
Member
Username: The_boy
Post Number: 100
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 08:32 am: | |
CWS?
I meant CWC? (Crisis What Crisis?)
I'm not usually up this early...  |
The Boy
Member
Username: The_boy
Post Number: 99
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 08:30 am: | |
CWS? said that "I am becoming concerned that whatever the initial subject of the post, it often ends up as an argument and point scoring exercise on the rights or wrongs of the Iraq conflict or who is right or wrong in Israel/Palestine", but this is clearly untrue, and in any case, the forum is titled 'General discussion'. |
Duende
Member
Username: Duende
Post Number: 71
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, July 25, 2009 - 11:19 am: | |
Thanks Spike, I also agree that there is a lot shared which isn't always on the surface. I do have tons of respect for most of the people
on this forum.
Short and very much to the point Dodo. I like it a lot. |
Dodo
Member
Username: Dodo
Post Number: 34
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 11:56 pm: | |
Crisis' point has been made before. The answer is - this is a 'General Discussion Forum.' |
Spike
Member
Username: Spike
Post Number: 1033
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 07:30 pm: | |
I'm with you on that Duende, I feel that I have more in common with other posters, than things that divide,and despite the differences of opinion, would like to think that there is an underlying shared aim/experience/bond? |
Duende
Member
Username: Duende
Post Number: 70
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 02:24 pm: | |
I know this thread's petered out but I would like to contribute to this discussion.
Crisis, while your question was on the 'pupose of the forum' it seems to be more about the way discussions are conducted. Hi-jacking, points scoring and exercises in semantics. You single out the Iraq conflict and the Israel/Palestine situation as subjects for this objectionable (?) behaviour.
My opinion is that being in a Union is part of being political in the broadest sense. About principles and struggle. I enjoy interacting with people who have principles and are prepared to struggle for them. They may not share my principles and struggle against me (to some extent) but that challenges me. There are diffents boards available but the reason no-one uses them (I imagine) is because we want more freedom. Probation/Cafcass work is multi-disciplinary by nature and touches on a vast number of issues. We benefit therefore from wide-ranging discussions. To restrict it to Union Matters would constrict, in my opinion, the value and purpose of this forum.
It is interesting to hear diverse points of view but of course it won't always be. There will always be some things that are No1 on one persons agenda and No. 99 on anothers. One persons sense of humour will be different from anothers. We do need to be self aware if we think something is just an 'exercise in semantics' when it may be something vitally important to someone else. This is diversity.
There should be respect for the purpose of original posts. If a thread raises new issues perhaps a new thread should be created. Points scoring is seductive in debates but should be probably be avoided. Semantics? I don't know about that, seems a rather subjective word to me. |
Myob
Member
Username: Psiman
Post Number: 444
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 11:27 am: | |
I bet it wasn't taken by helicopter though! |
Pulp fiction
Member
Username: Pulp_fiction
Post Number: 87
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 10:30 am: | |
Spike the photograph thred one wasnt taken to Beirut it was taken to Afghanistan, disguised as new weapons for our troops. |
Spike
Member
Username: Spike
Post Number: 1025
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 07:56 pm: | |
CWC I applaud the purity of intent in your intial post, but I fear that it may make people wonder if their posts are relevant enough, and stop them posting at all. Isn't it preferable that we have a lively discussion board that wanders a bit rather than an "on message" board with no posters. Without the hardcore posters this board could go the way of advise, assist and befriend. Maybe a move towards strictly probation business could change the character and encourage more posters, but that doesn't seem to be supported by the post counts on the threads.
I can't really see any threads that have been hijacked and flown to Beirut? other than perhaps the photography one, but in fairness to me it was the organisers that bought it up, so not unconnected |
Pulp fiction
Member
Username: Pulp_fiction
Post Number: 84
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 10:48 am: | |
Sniper my good friend, as I have been committed to diversity for many many years, I have been posting for a while, can you just run by me what you mean by a lack of respect for diversity?
I do respect you no longer want to post and fully respect that but have to agree with Fyrewalker in finding your comments interesting. So if you dont post again I fully respect that, but if you could let me know what the diversity issue is, it will be obliged. |
Fyrewalker
Member
Username: Fyrewalker
Post Number: 63
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 01:39 pm: | |
Sniper, I disagree with your comment about there being a lack of respect for diversity on this site...but please don't stop posting...I have often found your comments interesting and even thought provoking at times. Isn't that what debate is all about? |
sniper
Member
Username: Crosshair
Post Number: 76
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 08:20 pm: | |
I chose a few months ago to no longer post on this forum due to the lack of respect of diversity, which is allegedly a core component of probation practice and beliefs. The way things are going I think it will be a cold day in hell before I post again. |
Spike
Member
Username: Spike
Post Number: 1023
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 05:50 pm: | |
the thread boy, the thread ;) |
The Boy
Member
Username: The_boy
Post Number: 86
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 03:43 pm: | |
Leon – I absolutely agree that the use of a wider diversification of topics that appear 'open' to readers and contributors would be welcome. If my interests weren’t so narrow then I would do more to make this a reality! I am just one contributor to this forum and it makes me somewhat sad to think that starting four or five threads and following up original points (or elaborating on cut ‘n’ pasted chunks of text!) can be interpreted as hijacking the forum as a whole and rendering it less inclusive. When I see ‘General discussion’ I see that as an invitation to discuss British foreign policy, Israel/Palestine…football, Larkin, Pinter, real ale and other members’ subjects of interest!
Thanks for your apology. Your ‘puerile’ comment stung because it came from you and up until then I had agreed with about 98% of what you had said elsewhere on the forum.
Let’s make this forum more inclusive! No mention from me about the usual stuff on this forum for a week– I promise!
So, what do people think about ‘The Homecoming’? I am regularly surprised at how much it is admired, when ‘The Lover’ is much more innovative in the way it explores sexual power… |
Leon t
Member
Username: Leont
Post Number: 140
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 02:58 pm: | |
Boy, I don't disagree with your arguements, they are all well and good, but my point really is that the site seems, recently, to be dominated by an almost exclusive clique of posters. Now the whys and wherefores aren't important to me. What is important (to me) is that the debates on this site are relevant to as wide a group of contributers as possible. Hence I generally agree with Myob's post (seems odd I know). The use of a wider diversification of topics that appear 'open' to readers and contributers would be welcome.
Peurile? yes point taken I think I 'skim read' your post and misinterpreted some of the content as something it isn't. So I withdraw that 'accusation' (thats an apology). |
Myob
Member
Username: Psiman
Post Number: 439
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 02:37 pm: | |
Predictable, OK, but peurile? Why so?
On the main point, I return to the issue of forum structure. I believe that we should have a number of different forum divisions - existing posts in the "general" thread could be used to populate these as a starter, utilising a latest post date to order them. Many other sites do this, and then monitor people for going "off topic" - which should remain the basis for the "general" area. |
The Boy
Member
Username: The_boy
Post Number: 84
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 02:37 pm: | |
I had to check what puerile meant: childish; immature; infantile; silly; trivial; trifling.
Obviously I disagree with your opinion...I'm actually quite shocked and hurt by it, but ho-hum. The last sentence about 'irrelevant topics like illegal wars and mass murder' was a bit flippant, but I don't think the rest was childish. Maybe it's childish just to dismiss the whole contribution as 'puerile'...Ah, now we're getting into point scoring again! |
Leon t
Member
Username: Leont
Post Number: 138
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 01:18 pm: | |
VERY predictable, - and puerile. |
The Boy
Member
Username: The_boy
Post Number: 83
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 12:39 pm: | |
So, (heavy sigh) here’s my predictably ‘tit for tat’ contribution, which I presume some contributors will dismiss as ‘point scoring’:
“It is often of interest to hear diverse points of view but I am becoming concerned that whatever the initial subject of the post, it often ends up as an argument and point scoring exercise on the rights or wrongs of the Iraq conflict or who is right or wrong in Israel/Palestine or some other exercise in semantics.”
I’ve just glanced at the list of subjects most recently discussed on the forum and they include Ronnie Biggs, Michael Jackson, The Burkha, the BNP, Man Utd…They haven’t ended up as arguments about the Iraq war or Israel/Palestine. You may think that discussing what is right or wrong about the Iraq war or Israel/Palestine is an ‘exercise in semantics’ but I think that this is a ridiculously aloof way to belittle discussion about great crises that I assume you are lucky enough to not be directly affected by.
“I think you're right we are moving away from union based issues which affect us all and diluting what binds us as members with focus on the things that seperate us.”
Perhaps this is true. So let’s stop talking about Ronnie Biggs, Michael Jackson, The Burkha, the BNP, Man Utd, etc. etc. And let’s stop talking about British foreign policy because it has nothing to do with the Criminal Justice System or Napo…Except that some people think it does, and they are encouraged to explore this link on the Napo forum because of the heading ‘General discussion’ and their belief that Napo members are intelligent and care about slightly wider issues than AGM or redundancies.
“I think part of what Crisis is saying is that the forum is becoming dominated by individual debate, whereas it should belong to the membership. Maybe the rest of us just need to get on the site more and raise our concerns.”
Yes, people can get on the site more often. Simple. Why not encourage that instead of suggesting that people are having ‘semantic debates’ about irrelevant topics like illegal wars and mass murder? |
Revolter
Member
Username: Revolt
Post Number: 172
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 12:12 pm: | |
Perhaps a solution may be to establish a "Union Issues" forum? |
Revolter
Member
Username: Revolt
Post Number: 171
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 11:42 am: | |
I could quite easily assert that war affects the general membership in many respects, so it has a place to be discussed here. I think that trying to delineate parameters regarding issues concerning the general membership is a mission impossible. It seems a bit woolly and unnecessary given that, as has already been observed, the threads can be ignored if the reader so chooses. To object to the style in which people are arguing is a different matter, of course, and one which can be addressed by engaging in debate. |
Leon t
Member
Username: Leont
Post Number: 137
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 10:24 am: | |
Revolter, while I agree some of the debate is politicising, I have to say that the member participation in the ongoing middle east debates is quite limited (even though it spreads accross a number of threads). This suggests that many ARE already ignoring those threads. What Crisis seems to be suggesting is that members open up debate on UNION issues, after all this is a NAPO website and, in my opinion, should have a focus on common ground (Yes I have contributed to the political debates on many occasions) without debarring other debate. It does seem that some of the political debate degenerates into personal 'point scoring', witness the current debate on the legality or otherwise of the Iraq war and whether or not Jack Straw is a war criminal.
I for one would welcome debate on the issues that concern the general membership. I think part of what Crisis is saying is that the forum is becoming dominated by individual debate, whereas it should belong to the membership. Maybe the rest of us just need to get on the site more and raise our concerns. |
Myob
Member
Username: Psiman
Post Number: 437
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 10:18 am: | |
I think CWC, that you are missing the point. Surely, this is not about the forum use, but rather about the shameful foreign policy of western nations. All right, it is a good point, but perhaps, if the many previous suggestions on how to improve the forum had been listened to, ths would not happen as much. I agree with you that sometimes threads get hijacked, but also with Revolter that it is great we can discuss such a wide range of topics. If we had a better structured range of forums this might not be such an issue. The fact is that this is a "General" forum, so subjects will be general and more likely to divert into other areas. Perhaps we need a re-structure (quick - somebody get me a post in moj!) |
Revolter
Member
Username: Revolt
Post Number: 170
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 09:58 am: | |
Sorry, I don't agree. I think it's great that we can discuss anything on this website and one of its very strengths is that there is disagreement and debate. It's very politicising. As for the points-scoring business, well that's down to how one reads things. I guess none of us are above morality (don't ask me to define it, by the way). If you don't like a thread then you've got the choice of ignoring it - or objecting to it. |
Leon t
Member
Username: Leont
Post Number: 136
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 09:18 am: | |
Great clip on youtube Crisis, I think you're right we are moving away from union based issues which affect us all and diluting what binds us as members with focus on the things that seperate us. Like opinions on some political issues that are quite emotive but nothing to do with how we operate and what we are about as NAPO members. I'm as guilty as some on occasions but i'll get the ball rolling on this thread.
As a local and national rep I'm keen that this site is used to discuss the relevant issues that members have at work. I can't speak for everyone but I'd say - workloads, job security, pay and conditions, poor management, NOMS and budgets etc would be high on most peoples agenda. What I would also like to see is good robust debate and sharing of ideas and opinions on WHAT WE CAN DO TOGETHER to address these issues. |
Crisis What Crisis?
Member
Username: Crisis_what_crisis
Post Number: 218
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 01:47 am: | |
Greetings one and all.
I would like to initiate a discussion on the purpose of this forum.
It is often of interest to hear diverse points of view but I am becoming concerned that whatever the initial subject of the post, it often ends up as an argument and point scoring exercise on the rights or wrongs of the Iraq conflict or who is right or wrong in Israel/Palestine or some other exercise in semantics.
As important and interesting (or otherwise) these issues are, to stimulate the discussion, I am posting what I think is one of the cleverest union recruitment tools I have seen, compliments of Eric Lee at LabourStart.
http://www.labourstart.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLGoKqPAhSk
Discuss |
