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Message |
    
Crisis What Crisis?
Member
Username: Crisis_what_crisis
Post Number: 226
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 07:27 pm: | |
Myob, of course you are right. I was just feeling peeed off and disgruntled at having had the same disingenuous and slanted response to signing the petition.
We must maintain our efforts to fight these buffoons but the post by Rob about perceptions of probation should come as no great surprise.
Still, it is good to see that some local companies are doing OK as evidenced by the link below.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/record-contract-wins-see-serco-p rofits-up-a-third-1777719.html |
Revolter
Member
Username: Revolt
Post Number: 183
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 05:34 pm: | |
So, are the MoJ Civl Servants part of this plot/plan? |
papa_chango
Member
Username: Papa_chango
Post Number: 530
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 05:06 pm: | |
Revolter--- it's not unthinking in as much that multi-national corporations are looking to privatise the European Pubic Sector. This is the next move in world domination some say globalisation- but not me. |
Revolter
Member
Username: Revolt
Post Number: 182
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 04:30 pm: | |
Thanks for that Rob. I think, nonetheless, there is a sense in which such views are so off-the-cuff and so obviously unthinking, unanalytical and so downright unintelligent. So, you're absolutely right to point to the complete lack of knowledge of these people. They should employ some of their senses in trying to predict the outcomes of what a shambles the service would be if privatised or "given" to the voluntary sector. |
Rob Palmer
Moderator
Username: Rob_palmer
Post Number: 488
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 02:01 pm: | |
I should clarify a point - my relative had only been there 3 weeks and was telling me what the others were saying. He had no opinion.
I don't think, therefore I'm not.
|
Revolter
Member
Username: Revolt
Post Number: 181
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 01:08 pm: | |
Rob, if that is what your contact at the MoJ actually said then yes, that person clearly has no clue whatsoever as to the work carried out by the Probation Service. However, I don't think this erroneous economism is the main culture we are up against - the main worry is that they do not know what they are doing or indeed what they are going to do. Worshipping right-wing economics is one thing - translating it into workable social policy is another. That takes expertise and knowledge, and they simply are bereft of it. |
Rob Palmer
Moderator
Username: Rob_palmer
Post Number: 487
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 12:40 pm: | |
It is also easy to believe things that allow you to do what you want with a clear conscience. The reality is that the centre simply doesn't understand what we do and certainly, or more probably consequently, don't value it. As a result, they have no problem in compromising it (they may even not know that they are compromising it).
I have a relative who works for the MOJ. I asked him what the word on the street is down there re: Probation.
'Waste of time. Could easily be farmed out to the private and voluntary sector'. That is the culture that we are up against. They just don't get it.
I don't think, therefore I'm not.
|
devonboy
Member
Username: Morgan144
Post Number: 46
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 12:23 pm: | |
This is obviously an Orwellian definition of "True" that I have not previously come across. And now, just to make us all really happy, The Times yesterday had a big piece about ending our "Golden" pensions. Honestly, it's enough to make you weep, sometimes. |
Myob
Member
Username: Psiman
Post Number: 448
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:51 am: | |
Revolter is surely correct. Petitions are important for out cause. The problem to my mind is that only 1,500 of us signed it. How many members do we have again? The ugly head of apathy thinks about rising, then sinks back onto the pillow again. No – I didn’t expect much more than this response, but I am concerned that so few people signed it. It hardly shows strength of feeling does it?
As far as the detail goes, I think you are wrong CwC – they do believe it. They believe it because some of it is true and the rest is spin. It is easy to believe your own hype. Taking it bit by bit:
The overall settlement requires total efficiency savings of 2.2% across operational budgets in Probation in 2009-10. TRUE and ignoring the “savings” required in future years, with no definition of “efficiency”
This is in the context of a 70% increase in Probation funding in real terms over the last 10 years TRUE – CNOMIS didn’t fund itself you know. Just because most of the money didn’t go to operational staff doesn’t make this a lie as such.
and an increase of more than a third in staff. TRUE – Most of them at the centre and/or in non-operational roles
Re-offending rates are down – TRUE, depending on how you measure them
successful drug treatments and offending behaviour programmes are up TRUE
and the target for Community Payback is being exceeded TRUE.
OK, from this point on it does become massive spin. Clearly Public protection is put at risk by the reductions in frontline staffing that will happen, either though redundancies or by “natural wastage”. They may be able to reduce overheads and administration costs but lets face it we all know the vast proportion of our budgets are people costs, and government hardly has a good background in efficiencies – NOMS, Sunguard, premises, anyone? As far as “leaders” go – leaders are like eagles. You don’t see either of them much in this business… |
Revolter
Member
Username: Revolt
Post Number: 180
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 09:56 am: | |
If people really believed that change would be exacted from Brown and his gang of betrayers as a result of submitting this petition, then I think their expectations may have been slightly too high. However, petitions can be very good means of raising consciousness about subjects and issues, as in this case - so it was worthwhile in that sense.
We are NOT all doomed. That is nonsensical fatalism and rudder-less politics. We have to keep on fighting back and aim to take control of our own destinies. Petitions are a part of that fightback. |
Crisis What Crisis?
Member
Username: Crisis_what_crisis
Post Number: 225
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 10:25 pm: | |
No Devonboy, they don't believe it. They just keep repeating the same old mantra in the vain hope that someone else will believe it. The only thing I believe now is that petitions to Gordon et al are meaningless and we are all doomed. |
devonboy
Member
Username: Morgan144
Post Number: 45
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 01:28 pm: | |
The No10 response to our E petition about reducing staff in the probation service has just arrived:
"The overall settlement requires total efficiency savings of 2.2% across operational budgets in Probation in 2009-10. This is in the context of a 70% increase in Probation funding in real terms over the last 10 years and an increase of more than a third in staff. Re-offending rates are down, successful drug treatments and offending behaviour programmes are up, and the target for Community Payback is being exceeded. The Government will not do anything to endanger these successes in the future.
Public protection is the main priority for the Probation Service and it will not be put at risk. Efficiencies will be maximised by reducing overheads and administration costs so frontline services are protected and prioritised.
The restructuring of the National Offender Management Service has improved the focus on frontline delivery and increasing efficiency. Its leaders have made a commitment to the Probation Service that they value, and will protect, the good work that it does."
How does this square with what is actually going on in the real world? What are these people on? Can I have some? They actually believe this s**t and meanwhile our PSO's, ISA's AW's et al have all been told that redundancies are in the pipeline. WHat's that if it's not putting frontline services at risk. AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHH!!! GOD I am so cross! |
